Since 1939, the Santa Fe Animal Shelter (SFAS), a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, supported mostly through public donations, has been dedicated to its mission: support animals, save lives, and spread compassion. They are northern New Mexico’s largest open-admission, no-kill shelter. SFAS focuses on accessible spay and neuter programs, creative adoption efforts, and over a dozen community programs and initiatives. Located on a 100-acre campus complete with walking trails and play yards for daily enrichment for our shelter residents, SFAS also provides to the public; single and multi-use dog parks, training classes, and the Thaw Animal Hospital, a full-service veterinary clinic that offers affordable, high-quality veterinary services. The Santa Fe Animal Shelter was built by this community, for the community – a place to find joy with the animals. Today, tomorrow and always.
“Welcome to the Animal Shelter of the Week podcast, where we feature outstanding organizations from around the country that are helping animals and the people who rescue them. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Doobert.com. Doobert connects animal shelters with volunteers to do animal transport and fostering. Learn more and sign up for free at www.doobert.com. Let’s meet this week’s featured animal shelter.
Since 1939 the Santa Fe Animal Shelter, SFAS, a 501C3 nonprofit, supported mostly through public donations, has been dedicated to its mission. Support animals, save lives and spread compassion. They are northern New Mexico’s largest open-admission, no-kill shelter. SFAS focuses on accessible spay/neuter programs, creative adoption efforts and over a dozen community programs and initiatives. Located on a 100 acre campus, complete with walking trails and play yards, for daily enrichment, for their shelter residents, SFAS also provides to the public, single and multi-use dog parks, training classes and the Thought Animal Hospital, a full-service veterinarian clinic that offers affordable, high-quality veterinarian services. The Santa Fe Animal Shelter was built by their community, for their community. A place to find joy with the animals, today, tomorrow, and always.
Hi Murad, welcome to the show. Good afternoon. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You are very welcome. So I’m super excited to learn more about the Santa Fe Animal Shelter in New Mexico. You are actually the Public Relations Manager, right? That’s correct. Awesome. So how long have you been in your current position over there? I have been at the Santa Fe Animal Shelter for six years. I actually started as a volunteer, and because I did so well, they moved me to an Adoption Counsellor. And there I did so well, they moved me to be a manager of their resale store, and I did so well there, then they finally promoted me to this position, as the Public Relations Officer. So six years, I love it. That is awesome. And you’ve had your hands kind of in a little bit of a few different areas over there. So that’s awesome. I think that makes a good person to be in that role. I kind of know a little bit about everything. Yeah, it lets you know everything going on at a shelter and I really talk about it because actually work those positions. Yes, and most definitely.
So can you kind of just share with us a little bit more about your organization and just a little bit about what your guys’ mission is, and maybe some goals that you guys have. We’re located in beautiful Santa Fe, New Mexico, the city different. A beautiful town. If you haven’t been here, you should come on by. The Santa Fe Animal Shelter opened up in 1939 so we celebrate our 80th year, last year. And Santa Fe Animal Shelter has been dedicated to its mission, which is supporting animals, saving lives, and spreading compassion. We are Northern New Mexico’s largest open-admission, no-kill shelter. We are a privately run, 501C3 nonprofit organization. Meaning we are 100% donor based, we are a community-based shelter. The community built us. The community supports us, and we can’t thank them enough for that. Santa Fe Animal Shelter focuses on accessibility for spay and neuter programs, in an effort to beat the animal population at its core. In 2005, we left our original location, that we were there for almost 66 years, and we moved to a 100 acre campus on the south side of Santa Fe. And there we have five main buildings.
We have our admissions building, which is pretty much admission, where the animals come into, whether they come in through animal services or if they’re being surrendered or somebody found them. A good Samaritan found them. They come in through admissions. We also have our public hospital, which is a low-cost public hospital. We offer services from nail trimmings, all the way to full-on surgery. Whatever an animal may need. We have a sliding scale on that as well. We have our private clinic, which sees every single animal that comes through our system. We also have our adoptions building, which pretty much tells you what it is, it is an adoption building. We also have, which really makes us stand out and we’re very proud of this, is our behavior and training center, and we built that about four years ago, and this facility allows shy and frightened animals a place to play, to just get away from the hustle and bustle and learn to be a dog again. Here in New Mexico, you got, we still have animals that are chained up outside, for whatever reason, that haven’t really walked into a home. This is the interesting thing. We’ll get animals that come to us and we can’t get them through the doorway because they’ve never been through a door. They don’t know actually how to walk into a door. And the flooring is different. When the flooring inside the house is different from gravel from outside, so they’re scared to walk on it. Our rehab center, let’s these dogs learn to be dogs again and let them trust humans again, whether it was an abusive relationship, that these animals were in or if they were just neglected, for whatever reason. So the behavior and training facility has no time limit for an animal, and they could sit there for a week. They can sit there for a month, and we’ve had dogs, actually, be there for almost two years before they finally get adopted. So it’s a great facility. If anyone’s ever in this area, I would invite you to come on down. I love to give you guys a tour.
Oh my goodness. And you guys got so much stuff going on. And the fact that you guys just celebrated your 80th year recently, is just outstanding and the fact that you guys were able to kind of move up, especially be a nonprofit organization and get those five buildings and oh my gosh, I can’t imagine the manpower that goes into those. I’ll tell you, our manpower, we have about 100 staff members between all our facilities, that includes the main campus where all the animals are. We also have two resale stores, in town, where if there’s something in your house you no longer need, you can donate it to us. We’ll clean it up, we’ll resell it in our resale stores. And all that money goes to support the animals in the community. We also have a low-cost spay and neuter wellness clinic, in town, where people can go get vaccines and stuff, so that also supports the shelter. So between all these facilities, we have about 100 employees. The really cool thing is this month is also Volunteer Appreciation month and we have 500 volunteers, so we have about 5 to 1 ratio workers, and between everyone, we’re saving as many lives as we can. 5000 animals, last year, we saved. So it takes a lot of work and a huge big team to do it. That’s awesome to hear.
You know, I kind of want to touch back just a little bit on your behavior and training building and the fact that you mentioned that some dogs in your area have never been indoors and you struggle to get them through the doorway. That is just crazy. And it’s just eye-opening to some of the things that are just going on and how some of these animals are being treated. So that’s awesome that you guys offer that. Yeah, we have, when I was an Adoption Counselor, this is a couple of years ago, about three years ago, we had a dog that came to us. Beautiful white Pitbull mix. Never had it been inside of a building before and when we brought him in and we finally got him in the kennel. This is just when we opened up the Righties Rehab Center, our behavior and training building, the dog had never been in a building, and so we had a hard time with him in a kennel. So we decided let’s build a kennel outside our new behavior and training center. And so we built a little dog house for him outside. He was the happiest dog. I mean, day and night, he was so happy. He just enjoyed being outdoors. But every day or for an hour, we try to bring him indoors, and we taught him it’s OK to be indoors. You’re allowed too. He trusted us. We trusted him and fast forward two years, he was with us for two long years. He finally got adopted. The right person walked in and said, “I want to adopt him.” Today, that dog is an office dog, at a law firm, here in Santa Fe! Inside an office, every day and sits in this law firm. How awesome is that? It really shows the power, that if you have a team, if you have the resources, every animal can be helped. The sad thing is that this animal was in any other shelter. I mean, the chances are, he probably wouldn’t have survived, but we gave him that chance. And it’s a great story. Yes, it most definitely is. And it just takes them some time, just like a human is, your custom and set in your ways, that’s gonna take you some time to learn to outgrow those ways.
So that was an awesome story. So what’s it like in your community for the animals? Do you get a lot of stray dogs, like in Pitbulls, specifically? Or how does that look for some of us who may not be in New Mexico? You call a lot of stray animals, Mexico Brown dogs. The majority of the dogs that come to us are brown. Majority of them are Pitbulls. We either have Pitbulls or Chihuahuas. Actually, about two years ago, shelter actually took away breeds on the bios for the animals. We just found out that when people came in, they said, I want a poodle. I want a Chihuahua. I want, I don’t want a pit bull. I want a German Shepard. Thing is, we can’t tell you 100% what breed this animal is because we don’t do a DNA test on it. So we decided, you know what? Let’s just take away the breed and let’s just talk about their personalities. And at first we got some pushback from the community. But today they believe that and you can’t box a dog into the category of a Pitbull, a Chihuahua because Pitbulls do get a bad rap, in the media and little dogs, people think are the best things in the world. But I’ve seen them. I’m just saying, you shouldn’t box an animal by their breed, it’s all about their personalities. And we have a lot of different personalities in our shelter. A lot of times, people will give us a call or they’ll come into the shelter, and they’ll say, I’m looking for a dog I can go hiking with. And we ask him all these questions. How far do you go hiking? I like to hike 30-40 miles. OK, well, that’s gonna take out poodles, you don’t want a senior dog. So we try to ask a lot of questions, and without giving them a breed, we try to match them up.
All our animals, all our dogs, and cats are met by our behavior team a good two weeks before they move to adoptions. And by that time, our behavior and training department can pretty much tell you a nice little story. They can package up that animal and tell you everything about that animal. He’s okay? He or she’s okay with putting a lead on the collar. They’re okay with you touching their paws. They’re okay with you touching their tail. They’re gonna be cuddle buddies with you. They’re gonna be hiking buddies with you. They enjoy fetching the ball and they’ll bring it back to you. So we learn everything we can about this animal. So the time they come to adoptions, the adoption counselors can pretty much tell you everything. And there’s really no questions. Even though we don’t know anything about this animal before they walked into us, we can now tell you a little bit of the story that this animal, this dog likes to go on walks, enjoys the water, will fetch a ball for you. Will cuddle up on the couch with you. It’s potty trained. So we try to answer many of those kinds of questions.
But going to your question. We do have strays. We do get a lot of dogs running around or cats. We have a trap, neuter, release program, for community cats, where we go out there and we trap the animals and bring them to the shelter for the day. We spay and neuter them and we release them to exactly the same spot. So that’s really helped control the cat population here in Santa Fe. And that’s a good thing to do. I had personal experiences where I’ve adopted an animal and the organization knew absolutely nothing about this animal. That’s tough, you know because if you don’t know them, it makes them more prone to be returned or like it’s hard. And so that’s a great thing that you guys do. You take the time to know each animal. That way you can ensure that they go to the perfect home, that will end up being their forever home. Right. At the same time, we have no guilt returns, so if it doesn’t work out, we’re totally fine. You bring back an animal within the 1st 30 days, and our philosophy is you don’t marry the first person you go on a date with, and that’s the same thing with an animal. It might not work out. You might get home and your personalities just don’t connect. We always tell people, 30 days because the first leak is still a trial period.
When I was an adoption counselor, I used to always tell people this story, it’s like in high school. I did a student exchange program. I lived in Japan for six months, in high school. So when I went to Japan, they literally just plopped me into this town, in Japan, that no one spoke English. The food was completely different. I mean, I looked different. It was just a different world. And for the first week, I was scared and I was nervous. I didn’t know what was going on, and that’s kind of what the animals are going through. You’re taking them from a shelter environment, that they’re stuck in this little tiny kennel for pretty much 22 hours a day. And now you’re taking them to your home and you’re all looking at them and you’re loving them, which is great. But at the same time, they’re kind of like, Who are these people? So you need to give them a good week, for them to come out of their shell. But hopefully, everything turns out. But we also understand at the same time it might not, and we’re totally cool with you bringing back the animal. We ask you to fill out more forms, tell us how the animal was at your home. Were they potty trained? Did they destroy anything? Were they okay? How are they with kids? And all that we can build to their story, to add the next potential adopter. Wow, you guys really go over and beyond for these guys. It’s truly amazing to hear the efforts that you guys go to to know the animals. We are their voice. We’re their advocates. We’re not just a shelter, we’re a place where we really want to give them a second chance at life. And that’s what we’re doing. Yes, I would say so.
So I know you covered a little bit of some of the programs that you offer from the TNR and everything. Do you guys offer any other programs that kind of work with the people in your community, to keep them involved and engaged in your organization? Oh, yes, as I said before, we’re a community-run shelter, our community, our supporters. And it’s not just here in Santa Fe. Santa Fe has a lot of people that live here half the year and later live somewhere else the second half of the year. So I always like to tell people, we’re a national brand. People know who we are, from all over the country, and they follow us on our social media. But here in the community, Santa Fe Animal shelter, we help a lot of the food banks for humans because a lot of the food banks and remember those people also have animals. And if they’re struggling, especially right now with COVID19, people are struggling because they’re unemployed or they got furloughed. So our food pantries are very busy right now. And what we’re doing is we’re providing dog food and cat food to them. So those people that are struggling, can now also feed their animals. Our goal is to keep the animals at home. We don’t want people to surrender their animals because they can’t afford to feed them, so we provide the food for them whenever they’re struggling.
We also work with the women’s shelter, here in town. We found that women will stay in an abusive relationship because they have a pet. So we will take the pet on so the women can be safe and take care of what she needs to take care of. We’ll keep the animal until they can find another place to put the animal. But we will care for them. We do those kinds of things. And then, as well as we also go to schools. We found that by teaching kids, especially the ages, or the school ages of third and fourth grade, you can teach them animal welfare at that age. Then when they become adults, it’s gonna be a better planet. That’s gonna be a better world because they’re gonna know that they have to respect the animals, that they have to care for the animals. They have to spay and neuter the animals. And so that’s what we’re doing. We’re going into these schools and we’re doing six-week programs bringing dogs, bringing cats and teaching them hands-on what’s the importance and why it’s important for animal welfare, and this program is very successful. We have a waiting list for it and our Humane Education department is just doing an awesome, awesome job. And that also is a volunteer-run program.
Just from all the other great programs that you mentioned. I mean, is there anything that you guys don’t do? I don’t know. It feels like we do a lot. But animals are family. Dogs are family, cats are family. They’re part of our family. And when you think about it, humans, we have so many different avenues that we touch. So it’s the same thing, the animals. I mean, they touch so many different aspects of our lives. So, yeah, we have a lot of programs, but they’re all needed programs. Yeah, that’s part of knowing your community and knowing, you know, what’s best for the people of your community, but also what’s best for the animals and how to tie them together. And that’s, I think, what you guys have found what works and you guys are just growing on that and that’s an awesome thing to have. And to just kind of keep that community support behind you guys and just keep them involved is what’s awesome.
So that literally with all those great things, it just kind of makes me wonder. What is something that you guys challenge with? Other than the COVID aspect right now, we’ll kind of cover that in a little bit. But what are some normal challenges that you guys face? Right now, yeah it is COVID19. We’re financially struggling right now. It all is gonna fall on COVID. But we’re struggling because people are struggling. People can’t get vaccines done for their animals. They can’t do spay/neuter right now, because those aren’t essential businesses. So, unfortunately, spay and neutering is gonna come back and haunt us, six months or a year down the road because all these people want to spay and neuter their animals. But they can’t because of the COVID19 and the stay at home mandates. So I think what’s gonna happen is our puppy and kitten season, which is right now beginning is gonna continue for a very, very long time. Oh, my goodness. I knew they weren’t doing the spay/neuter, but he didn’t know that they weren’t doing vaccines either. Yeah, vaccines aren’t essential. Thing is, a lot of the vaccines and animals actually stay around, will stay in their system much longer than the actual expiration date. So if you have a dog that needs their distemper shot and it’s due in April, that’s actually good for another 3-4 months. You really don’t need to worry, and you can talk to your vet more about that. But all our animals that we’re adopting out, we are spaying/neutering, we’re giving them all vaccines. So that’s where we are.
So for the adoptions right now, how are you guys kind of going about that, when it comes to the vaccines and the spay/neuters? Have you guys been working with them to get those animals spayed and neutered once the vets open? We have a whole clinic staff that’s working with every animal that goes through our system, so they’re practicing the whole social distancing and everything. Then they’re covered up. But every animal is vaccinated. Every animal is spayed and neutered when you adopt them. Our adoption process is now completely different than it was six weeks ago or seven weeks ago. Now it’s pretty much by appointment only, so we can only take in two people an hour, into the adoption center. So throughout the days that, you’re only getting about eight potential adoptions a day. And half of those don’t even happen. So it’s about four adoptions a day, which we could be doing a lot more, when we go back to normal. But we’re learning different tactics. We’re learning different procedures. We’re calling people to confirm their appointment. So we’re doing a lot of things differently. I think every day, our world is changing and we’re all adapting to new ways of doing things.
So do you guys do anything currently due to the COVID pandemic, aside from your adoption process, that is slightly different than you normally would? Like, are you guys doing any type of events that will now maybe virtual? Well, yeah. So all of our events actually got canceled for the whole year because it’s hard to put things together when you can’t go look at a place to hold a charity event. It’s hard to get sponsors for something when you really don’t know what’s gonna happen in six months. And it’s gonna be hard to sell tickets because you really don’t know, will people want to leave the house and go to a big fundraising gala, to be right next to somebody else, at a dinner event. So we pretty much said, let’s just put everything on hold. Let’s just table at all, and we started looking at different avenues, different ways of fundraising. So right now we’re in the middle of doing a fundraising event calling Rise Up. We want people to rise up to the occasion of supporting the homeless animals. And if you donate $100 to us, we’ll send you a packet of wildflower seeds, so they will rise up in your garden this spring. So you’re rising up for the animals and you’re getting some seeds at the same time, and you have a beautiful garden in three months.
So we’re trying to come up with different ways of doing things. We’re also holding a kitten and puppy shower in a couple of days, and that’s something that we normally do at the shelter. And it’s kind of like a baby shower but for kittens and puppies. We have the games. You have the balloons. I mean, everything and it’s a fun event. We’ve done it for three years, but now we’re gonna do it virtually, online. And lucky me, I get to host it from my house, so it’s a different way of asking for money. But things are different, but you have to adapt, and I think it will all work out, hopefully. You know, even though it’s gonna be virtual, I think that the whole COVID thing has definitely made organizations think differently and how to approach just different areas, you know, to where now you don’t just have to include and involve the local community. You can involve anybody that’s around. What better way to kind of start puppy and kitten season, then with a puppy, kitten virtual shower, you know? Exactly. Yeah.
And the thing is, the community wants to help. I have a realtor give me a call the other day and she found out that we were doing this puppy and kitten virtual fundraiser. And so she’s gonna be a matching donor. So she said, I’ll match whatever people donate. So the community wants to help. They’re trying to figure it out to, how to help. A lot of people are struggling with money. So we have people making masks for us, for our front line workers. We have people that are making animal toys that they could bring to the shelter and the dogs, and the cats will play with them. So we have a lot of people doing things completely different, that a year ago I don’t think a lot of these people would have been doing this stuff. People are getting creative. People are doing fundraisers for us, which is a big thing now. We have this one lady who went and bought $200 worth of gift certificates from local restaurants, who are also struggling because of the COVID19. So she put them all together and now she’s doing a raffle, on behalf of us. The community is really stepping up and rising up to helping the homeless animals in New Mexico.
It sounds awesome. I’m happy that you guys have that extra added support. Yeah, because I think the simple hashtag tag line that people have been saying is,” We’re all in this together” and we really are. It’s us. It’s the human race. It’s the animals. It’s the restaurants. It’s the animal shelters. It’s the hospitals. It’s the front line workers. We’re all in this together and we work together, we will totally battle this and we’ll come out of this as a better race. Yes, you know Murad, I love your enthusiasm. And I think just from talking to you, you are in an amazing role. You fit the public relations person very, to a T, and I find it very easy to talk to you. You can tell you’ve got that passion for your organization and not just that, but just the animals.
So can you kind of share with us a little bit about what drives your passion for working in the animal welfare industry? And has it always been like that? Or, you know, is this something that you just kind of learned later on in life? That’s interesting. I was in corporate America for 20 years, and then, literally, in my 20th year, I just decided, You know what? Why am I making corporate America rich? I mean, what am I really doing for the world? And I was living in Texas at the time, and that’s when I sold my house and I moved to Santa Fe. And I just wanted a simple life. I didn’t know what I was gonna do. And I went into the Santa Fe Animal Shelter to volunteer, and I just worked my way up from there. And to see an animal come in broken. To see an animal come in, that was hit by a car. To see an animal that was abused. We have a dog right now in our social media, all this week that we’re featuring. Her name is Star and Star was adopted but then quickly returned to us because she was attacked by the other dogs in the house. And pretty much, they ripped the nose, the portion of her nose off, so we’ve been mending her, getting her better. But we’ve been doing a whole social media week-long story on her. And the thing is to see these animals come in that way. And then a month later, two months later, however long it takes to rebuild them, to get them to the best shape that they could be in. And then to get them adopted and see them walk out the door, it’s the most fulfilling you will ever feel in your heart, and you just feel like a better person after doing that. And for everything I’ve done in my past, when I see an animal get adopted and walk out the door, I love, I just it just makes me so happy. And then part two of that is to get an email from an adopter that adopted a dog or cat from us a year ago, two years ago or three years ago, and they’re saying, Hey, I adopted this dog from you do you remember? I totally remember that dog. Remember that dog that came in and he was abused. Or he was chained up outside where he came in with a broken leg and we had to amputate it. And now he’s the happiest dog, running around jumping in the lakes. And he sent us all these pictures. It’s the best feeling you’ll ever feel, and this is why I do it. That’s exactly why I do animal welfare.
And I think that we can all relate, you know, you get those tough situations, that just turn out, like a complete 180, almost like a completely different animal when they come in. And I love asking that specific question during this podcast because of the fact that you started out in the corporate world and you’re just like, What am I doing? This isn’t what I want to do, and you move on to something completely different. And like I mentioned before, I think you are in a great position. You know, I can tell just from talking to you that you love what you do. And, you know, I think that that’s awesome. And I couldn’t be more happier that they have you and that you have them. Yeah. I mean to see the vulnerable animals come in, especially now with the kitten and puppy season. And to see these day old kittens come in and they don’t have a mom anymore, you know, caring for them. And we literally, we’re their lifeline. And in two months, they’ll be 100% well and able to be adopted. And to see those kittens turn into cats, it’s the best feeling. Yes.
If any of our listeners are feeling generous or, you know, we have anybody that’s in the area that would love to kind of help you guys out, whether it’s to be a volunteer or just support you guys. What is the best way that somebody can get into contact with you guys? We have so many ways. The easiest away is if you have a phone, you can text us at 26989. That’s 26989 and just text the word, Love. It’s that easy. We’ll send you some information on the shelter and hopefully you’ll donate. You also go to our website, which is SF as in Santa Fe, sfhumanesociety.org see all of our information on there. Or please join our social media family, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Just type in Santa Fe Animal Shelter. You’ll find us on there. We’re very active on Facebook and Instagram and we have great stories and there’s great videos. I get to do all that on top of everything else I do. Follow us, like us, and be a part of our family. Great!. And I actually have never heard of an organization having like a text service type thing, where you can just text the word, Love and you guys respond with some information. I think that that’s very unique and very creative and a good way to get people a little bit more involved. Yeah, that’s actually a new thing. We’re actually just launching, as we speak. I think this is the first podcast I’m actually giving that out. Oh yeah, yeah, so it’s a really cool platform. We just started, so 26989 type in Love and you hit Send and then we’ll send you back some information and we’ll send you some videos and it’s a really cool thing, very interactive. And if my parents can do it, I love it! That’s absolutely right and it is a great platform to have. Everybody’s on their phone nowadays, so let’s just all help out and support and I think that that’s a great thing that you guys offer.
So Murad, I love talking to you today. You guys seem like you’re doing amazing and beyond over there in New Mexico. And I hope that you guys get those virtual events going and keep things going and hopefully, after COVID, everything will settle down and you guys can get back to your normal routine and maybe even add some of the stuff you’ve learned during COVID to your new routine. Yes, thank you. I love that.
So do you have anything else that you’d like to share with us today before we wrap things up? Since this is broadcast nationally, I would just tell people wherever you are, anyone can be a volunteer at an animal shelter. I know every animal shelter needs help. Regardless of what you can do and what you can’t do. An animal shelter will find a place for you. We have volunteers that are allergic to animals but still volunteer with us and they volunteer in administrative work. We have a volunteer that’s blind, that’s 90 years old, yet she’s able to volunteer. She comes into a kennel every week, and she tells me to bring whatever animal that needs love and attention. So because she’s blind, she has no fear. And she’s not judging an animal as we bring them into the kennel. So she can love on any animal, regardless if they’re a Chihuahua, or if they’re a 125lb Mastiff. She doesn’t see them because she feels them and it’s the greatest joy. And being a volunteer, I’m telling you, it will be one of the better things that you’ll do in life. You can give an hour a week to your local animal shelter. And you know, I love that you shared that because it just literally proves that anybody could be a volunteer and help out. It’s awesome to hear. So thank you for sharing that and thank you again for joining us today and just kind of giving us all the insight about you guys and letting us learn a little bit about you also. Well, thank you. Thank you, Kimberly, for having us.
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