Lynne Marie has worked with dogs for the past 38 years. She has written two books to help humans understand dogs and their behaviors. In her books, she shares experiences and the knowledge she’s gained through the different positions she’s held in the field. She believes that once you drop your fear of the animal and handle them with love and understanding they become less afraid and less reactive. Being prepared for anything and staying calm with all dogs is all it takes.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HumanDogConnection/Welcome to the Animal Trainers podcast, where our goal is to introduce you toe amazing trainers and behaviorists who are helping animals. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Joubert dot com. Do Bert is a free platform designed to connect volunteers with rescues and shelters and the only place that automates local rides and transports. Now on with our show. Lynn Marie has worked with dogs for the past 38 years. She has written two books to help humans understand dogs and their behaviors. In her books, she shares experiences and the knowledge she’s gained throughout the different positions she’s held in the field. She believes that once you drop your fear of the animal and handle them with love and understanding, they become less afraid and less reactive. Being prepared for anything and staying calm with a dog is all it takes. Halen Welcome to the show. Hello. Hi. I’m really excited to have you today and learn a little bit more about what you’re doing and what your background is. So why don’t you start me there and tell me how How did you come to be in the animal training industry? Tell me a little bit about your childhood and your background. Oh, well, I knew when I was about four or five years old, we actually had a dog that my parents had gotten rid of. I thought they had her put to sleep, and at that point, I knew my life was gonna be in dogs. And from you know, I was raised with dogs. I’ve always we’ve always had a dog in the family, and I’ve also was raised with horses. So I learned a lot with the horses to begin with and then onto the dog. My parents divorced when I was six. I mean, and I was got my first job at a boarding and grooming kennel, and from that point on, I just went into multiple different fields in the dogs for the past 38 years. Yeah, that’s quite the history, right? I always find it fascinating when people tell me they knew what the age of 456 years old, that that’s what they wanted to dio, um, and that it’s fascinating to me because a lot of people think kids don’t know what they want to do, right. They have this dream, and firefighters and astronauts and all of those things. And I’ll tell you the more and more I talk to people, the more and more I find that kids do know what they want. Right to your story. At five years old, you knew there was something inside of you that was pulling you down that path 38 years later, 38 years later. Here you are. Yeah. And I mean, you know when that your if you follow your passion in it with my passion dogs in my passion and I didn’t allow anybody to stop me, I was going to do it. I just want to say thank you for sticking that out. And you’ve done a lot of different things, right? Groomers, borders, working at organizations, shelters all sorts of different things. And so talk to me about what you’re doing today and what that journey has been like for you. Well, you when I first got into dogs, always thought Okay, I’m gonna I’m gonna help dogs. I’m gonna do everything I possibly can to help dog. Well, you know, being in the business, all of them, you know, showing dogs, working as a vet, tech all of the positions that I had. I learned that it wasn’t the dogs that needed the help. It was the humans in their life. So that’s that’s what I’m working on now, getting to, you know, into the humans. You know, I did it with my businesses that I had always helped the individuals with their dogs. Well, now I would like to, you know, band that out and get more people you know to teach. I’ve written two books. The 1st 1 understanding behavior that one goes into specific, you know? Why does the dog bark? Why does the dog big? Why does the dog tear up thing? And then my second book is fantastic creatures. And the first chapter is on deciding. You know, when you get to that point where you’re gonna decide about getting a dog, how much do you think about it? What are you thinking about? What breed are you getting a breed? Because somebody said it was nice. There’s It’s something that you want, you know. And then the second chapter goes into what to expect at the different ages. Did you bring a puppy into your home? Your teaching that puppy the moment it walks in about human existence because it’s only used to litter experience being in with its littermates and with its small. Now it gets to experience the human family. And you know what you dio is what you’re teaching them. And then it goes into, you know, dealing with death. We all have to deal with death at some point. And when is it time to let them go? And are we hanging on to them for us or we doing it for them? A creature that is unconditional love and they deserve the same humans get their ego involved with it. And, you know, unfortunately, people use terms like dominance and Alfa and that not necessary. You know, it’s a family, a family system. That’s what you’re bringing that dog into. You have a mother, you have a father and you have siblings. You know, back who the dog is gonna learn from all they learned by pattern. So Mom treats the dog one way. It’s gonna learn that pattern bad. Treat him another way. It’s gonna learn that pattern and so on and so on. So the behavior is a reflection of the family that they live in and that’s what I’m teaching people. What are you teaching the dog? You know, you’re not. A lot of humans aren’t aware that just their own behavior in the patterns that take that is teaching the dog behavior pattern, you know? And then the main couldn’t. The main thing that, you know, aggression, aggression. You know, so many dogs are labeled aggressive. Well, I’ve got a giants now. They’re here that I rescued at 10 months of age that was gonna be euthanized for aggressive behavior. And this was from the vet. The vet recommended it, and the one training class kicked the puppy out because they said it was too aggressive. When she moved in here, she hadn’t. She wasn’t aggressive. The dog was living in total fear. So, you know, it’s explaining to people that dogs aren’t aggressive, their defensive, they’re defending themselves. Depending on how the human has treated them, they’re gonna be mawr or more defensive, depending. And it’s the same in grooming shop in trainers, handlers, anybody that’s in the profession that dealing with the dog toe understand that they’re not aggressive. A fear biter in a cage is a fear fighter. They’re not biting out of fear. Any time a dog shows what humans call aggression, it’s beer bait, you know, and Bailey, the giant puppy sheet. Everybody loves this dog. She is this awesome. But, you know, she was raised in and you’ll see in my book, if you know, they read my book, um, fantastic creatures from the age of you could guess they probably got her at 8 to 9 weeks of age from that age on until until I got her. At 10 months of age, she went to Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year’s in a new home with a family. And this is this is the dog dog coming from a breeding candle that had a home with dogs and other dogs. Get put into this home with humans with two Children, two dogs, two adult. You know how holidays are. Their hectic is all Get out. So there’s no telling what this puppy went through during that time period. And so, yeah, she was afraid she came here. She she would see a child, and she would bark Adam and snapped her teeth together. Now she if she saw an adult, she just parked out. It wasn’t the same bunk, but the child will now look what happened when family spring a dog, a puppy into a home with a child. The child goes and pulls puppies years, puppy bites, the child child screens who gets yelled at You know, he was just defending himself. But the puppy gets in trouble because he hit the child. You know, that’s where the parents in the human You’ve got to be more observant. You’ve got to a puppy cannot just be let free in a house, especially around Children. Yeah, there’s something. There’s something to be said about that, right? I think we do blame the animals for their behavior when in reality, the humans have to take some accountability in some responsibility. There is that human element in there for sure. And so I I appreciate your approach of. It’s not just about the dog behavior, right. It’s about the human behavior and understanding as well, right? I mean, I I forgot to mention that the book understanding behavior is also its understanding behavior, the human effect, because the humans have all the effect, all of it. A dog’s behavior is a reflection of the humans in their family the whole family system, you’ve got to take responsibility. And in my book that I one of the books I can remember which one was in. But if I stay, if you’re angry about a dog and you’re upset about a dog behavior steady on at that dog, go look in the mirror and yell at yourself because you created it. It’s the patterns you set. It’s action reaction in the what is the definition of insanity? Insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And that’s what humans do. They yell out. You can’t continue to yell at him. That’s not teaching them, you know. You gotta teach them what you mean. You know you want to teach them the English language. That’s it. Simple, Yes. So one of the one of the things I wanted it to touch him briefly, as you had mentioned right, the fact that they’re scared not necessarily that their aggressive. And while I do think that there are some aggressive dogs out there, um, I agree with you in that much of that aggression comes from them being afraid, right, likely from their past or other situations that they’re pulling from, created by maybe other humans, not the one that they’re currently with. Its hard to unlearn that right? And so, to your point, it’s really about teaching and encouraging them with new positive behavior. And so how do you a Somebody who works with dogs? How do you teach them? Right, You admit you had mentioned teaching them the English language. When you have an aggressive or a fearful dog, how do you How do you go about changing that behavior? Well, im in again because, you know, I’ve seen it. I understand. And you have your belief in my belief that there’s no such thing as aggression because dogs don’t have anger. Humans have anger. Dogs do not have anger. They don’t have negative emotions. They only have positive emotion except for fear. So once the fear is instilled in them, we changed the pattern of RB savior. Okay, that’s why saying, you know, doing the same thing over and over, sure, and expecting a different result. Well, that’s just, you know, you can’t validate a dog fear, but you can validate the behavior that they behaving out of fear. You know, grooming dog shows many years. And the vet tech industry you know you’re reaching indicated the talks were afraid. You know, it’s mere they’re not aggressive. And, um, you know, So by dealing with, um, you just taken approach, like, okay. And I’m gonna use an example for how I get a dog out of a camel. Okay? It’s so simple. You know, people are afraid to reach into a candle, Always put a towel down, make sure you have a towel in that kennel. But that dog is sitting on you have a fear full dog in a candle, reach underneath the tell and grab their leg and slide him out. If they bite your hand, it’s not gonna hurt. And if you stay calm and don’t scream and just say it’s okay, I’m not gonna hurt you. You’re all right. And you drag him to you and you put him in your arms. I didn’t. You know, I’m not trying to throw a loop over their head, which is going to get him freaking out, you know, because you’ve got this lead. You’re trying to talk over their head and try to look him and then drag him out or dump him out of a candle. You know, all of that stuff is just going to validate their fear. We want to take that fear, and you have nothing to fear. It’s OK, you know? And that’s how you change for the fearful one. Um, one of the ones that I had here that was deemed aggressive. He would fight and run because you can bet you now. Well, it happened to him. How did he learn that behavior he got He bit and got smacked. So he learned the pattern. I’m a bite and run. I can’t get smacked. So, you know, my response was not to even respond. I just didn’t I just ignored it and he came around and, you know, if he did by, you know, don’t smack. I don’t hit. I don’t do anything like that. I take my some I put it in their mouth on their tongue, and I hold their bottom job. I just I’m not pulling it. I’m not dragging. I’m just holding it. And I’m going, uh, we don’t bite easy, you know, be easy. And that usually takes one time. They don’t bite again because I’m not getting any, you know, I’m not the energy the energy that you bring into its gonna be reflected to a dog consent your energy. If you’re afraid, we’ll get what you’re gonna get it. Yeah, yeah, You’re gonna get bit. Yeah. And you do hear that from people, right? And you know, it’s the same thing with horses. And I think your background with horses definitely plays a part in that they can definitely sense, um, your emotions, right? How you’re feeling in that in that moment. And so I agree with you and that it’s really important Teoh not overreact and not get angry because they do. I don’t know that they feed off of that, but they can certainly sense that. Um so I think it’s a very valid a very valid point. One of the things that you had mentioned Lin in your book is that you talk about reading their behavior, and I know this is such a big thing for people in the training industry. It’s it’s not just teaching them, but it’s learning to understand what they’re telling you right there, not there. Nonverbal. And so it really is the small things with their behavior that you need to pay attention to. And I think sometimes dog owners forget that. And so that has to be something that I’m assuming you really you focus on. Now that you’re kind of leaning towards Theo education side of things as well is really getting them to understand what those certain behaviours are right, whether it’s a curled tail or licking the lips or twitching. No, I don’t believe in that. I don’t believe I don’t. I don’t go by the can’t think of the name, but they call it, um, call me signal. Okay. They’re considered calming signals, OK? And yeah, they have. But is that something that I watch? No. I want the total dog. I watched the behavior and you can just look at one incident. You’ve got to look at the whole picture. Okay. Um I can tell you, I had a dog in my home with this girl and I started to see a pattern that when she would be eating the dog would attack my dog. My dog got if my dog walked near that area, he would attack her. And this happened multiple times and he was meaning it. He But he broke open her skin and everything. Sure, but what it associating for me? Waas She had a fixation with food. He could sense that. And when anybody went around, that’s when he would attack. Sometimes because of because of the energy, you know, they say dogs, you know, people say service dogs operational 30 thought all dogs, all of them are they, especially with somebody that if they sleep in their bedroom because you gotta think when you’re sleeping that you’re rested rate a dog knows what you’re arrested greatest. They know what your heart rate is. They know what your respiration is Taken sense all that they can. Your energy is calm, cool and collected. The one share awake and you’re agitated or something. The dog’s gonna pick up on that, and their behavior is going to reflect it. And a lot of times, like crying. Um, you know, a dog will try to go up to the human and consoling the human a lot of time. So because they’re upset or whatever the case might be, they’ll shut the dog away. So here’s the pattern that the dog gets, you know, you see the pattern, it starts to form. Okay, mom feels like this. She don’t want me and around. I need to run. So now we have the association to this energy. And what behavior I need to do the same with anger. You know, people that come into their home and they yell at the dog every time they come into the home. So they come home. And they say the dog knows he’s acting guilty. No, it’s not. It’s acting fearful because every time you come home, you yell about something. So that’s the pattern the dog has set itself up for, even if they didn’t dump something on the ground. But something was on the ground. They got yelled at, They do it, but they got yelled at. So now something goes on the ground, they’re gonna go run. They’re gonna run the opposite direction of the human gonna get away. So one s so one of the things I really liked that you said is that you’re looking at the whole picture, right? Not at one specific action or behavior of the dog. I think I think it’s really cool, and I don’t know how many trainers out there do this, but you’re looking at the entire situation, right? The entire scenario. What were you doing when that dog reacted the way that that he or she did? And so I think there’s a lot of value in that, because even us as humans, it’s a situational thing, right? It might not be one specific thing, but more of the entire situation. So I appreciate that you said that. And I think that, you know, that’s a very truthful statement on and one for me that really resonated. Yeah, I mean, because it is. It’s not just once incident, since all could learn this behavior somewhere. So let me go back where we unaware that the pattern begins because that’s all it is. We we live by pattern when you know our life is patterns. We say we have rules of the house. No, we have patterns of the help, and when the patterns are not followed through back when we get unease E because we’re used to the pattern, you know, when somebody comes and visits, they knock our pattern totally off, and we are just totally lost because now we’ve got to change our pattern of living to bring them in a dog is the same way you know there, by patterns of living when you have a family together, Okay? And then, you know, the major thing is when people would say, Oh, my dog started doing this. Okay? The left. Look back. Go on. A timeline. When a new pattern of behavior begins, go to when that happens. Began what happened at that time. Ah, lot of the cases where people were having dogs defecating in the house just out of the blue. Their daughter or son went off to college. Okay, so now that pattern, that dog patterns changed, it doesn’t know what to do. It’s used to that daughter getting up, walking, um, beating them and then going Well, now that daughter’s gone. Okay, so now what do I do? Right. So what, you see how? Yes. So, with almost every change, with every major change right in the household, it’s almost like you have to retrain them. Would you re teach them? Would you say that’s inaccurate statement? Well, you it’s not like re teaching. Um, you just have to start another pattern, you know, because, you know, that was, like, recently, somebody I know had gotten broke their hips and they were in the hospital in rehab. Well, luckily, the rehab allow dogs, but they asked me if if they felt that that was good or bad to bring the dog up there because this dog was there. Talk. And I’m like, bringing the dog up there. You know, the patterns already broke. You’re not home. We’ll start a new pattern. The new pattern is I get to come see such such amount of time and then like a home. So that the positive chatter instead of the puppy, you know, being at home going well, Where is Mommy? You know what? Is she gonna be home? It’s very fascinating to me, right? The whole pattern thing is an angle that I hadn’t really considered, right? I’m not. I’m not a trainer. I don’t deal with dogs in my daily life. And so that’s an interesting what I would consider way to look at things right. I think we’re just so used to hearing training and obedience and all of those things where it really becomes about behavior and patterns. I myself am a very pattern driven person, right? I like a routine. I like a schedule Um, and so it’s just a fascinating way for Meteo to think about that. So I appreciate you sharing that with me and giving me another perspective. Yeah, I mean, and that’s it. You’ve got to look at everything in every perspective you can possibly imagine, right? You know, because not everything is going. Not every dog fits in this basket. Not every behavior, you know, a dog could be behaving. Oh, let’s say you want to say, you know, biting. And then there’s another one that urinating here, you know, And it’s each one. It’s the same thing. To be honest with you, they lack confidence and they’re in fear. So that is their behavior, that they’ve learned how to deal with it. And it’s a pattern that be human hasn’t done anything to change, so they’re going to continue to behave that way. That’s when you start bringing in more positive, positive energy. Always praise the good. No matter if that dog is a puppy or on adult praise, when they go potty outside and you happen to be out there for one thing, they become too dependent on the human and to do that, then they become you know, they’re not confident with themselves because they depend on the human or they depend on another dog in the house. Yeah, too many people use that littermates syndrome. There’s no such thing. It’s the human, the human feel. Oh, there, littermates. They gotta have to do everything together. So they take them out together and they do this together and you’re caught. You’re creating a situation where the dependent on each other. So that’s why when you have close ones like that one passes, the other one pines himself to death. It’s because the humans have created it. You’ve never separated those two. How couldn’t they act independently when they’ve been a couple of the whole time? Sure. I mean, it’s the same with just bringing in two puppies from different litters into your home. If you do the same thing, you’re gonna have the same result. They have to be treated independently, doing things separately. That way, you don’t have that kind of pining over each other. You take one out of the kennel, the other ones screaming, bloody murder. You know, it happens all the time, Len. I’ve learned a lot just in our in our short conversation. I really appreciate my time with you and learning people’s perspective on things, and I feel like as humans, we can learn a lot from each other, right? If we just listen and go into a situation with eyes and ears wide open and willing to hear the other the other person on and I feel like that’s what I’ve learned from my time with you, I feel like you’ve brought me a lot of perspective and and I appreciate your time. And so is there anything else? Um, that maybe we didn’t get to that You want to share before we wrap things up? Well, I mean, just basically, you know, it’s the same is the way you know, the way you treat a dog. If the same is a human, you know, you treated another human or you treat a child the way you raise a child. You know, again, you know, seeing the whole picture. And you know, if you really sit down and look at the behavior and then what did you do? You know? How did you create it? I mean, I did it all the time. I had dogs that bit me while I was grooming him and I would sit down and go, OK, what did I do? Because they didn’t do nothing. They were defending themselves. They felt like they needed it. And that’s the same as a human or a child. You know, they felt the need to defend themselves. Whatever the case may be, you know, you gotta again. We bring up that you gotta look at the whole thing. And you know, every time that I that back and looked at, what did I dio? I could see what I did. And it could be something as simple as taking your attention off. Because once you take your attention off of something, you have disconnected that energy field, and now you have to start all over, especially with a fearful dog or a fearful child or whatever the case may be, you know? So, you know, staying in tune with them, staying in the moment. And that’s what it’s about staying in the moment in everything that you’re doing. Get out of your head. Whatever you have in your head, you can’t do nothing about right now. You’re in the moment with that dog. Stay in the moment with that dog. I think that was, you know, again, the perspective and what you bring to the table with 38 years of experience. Um, that’s hard to touch, Right? So I appreciate you sharing that knowledge. And again, I want people to know that we’re gonna list your information on the podcast publishing when that happens, so we’ll be sure the link to the books on and any other information and sites that you have out there. So if people have questions or they want to get in touch with you, they’ll be able to do that through, um, the podcast. Publishing as well again. Lynn, thank you so much for your for your time today and sharing your story. No anytime. Thanks for tuning into today’s podcast. Please make sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and be sure to give us a review so we could help even more animals. 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