Hope Cat Rescue is a licensed RI cat rescue and federal 501C3 nonprofit organization that focuses on the front line on location target trapping of street cats in need. This could be pregnant, sick, injured, kittens, or the trap neuter/spay return of feral colony cats. The organization consists of only one trapper, Nathan Campagna from Warwick, RI. They work within a large network of cat rescuers consisting of private rescues and shelters as well as municipal shelters and animal control. When we all work together we can get a lot done.
“Welcome to the Animal Rescue of the Week podcast, where we feature outstanding organizations from around the country that are helping animals & the people who rescue them. This podcast is proudly sponsored by Doobert.com. Doobert connects animal shelters with volunteers to do animal transport and fostering. Learn more and sign up for free at www.doobert.com. Let’s meet this week’s featured animal rescue.
Hope Cat Rescue is a licensed, Rhode Island Cat Rescue and a feral, nonprofit organization, that focuses on the front line of location target trapping of street cats in need. This could be cats that are pregnant, sick or injured, kittens, or the trap/neuter/spay return of feral colony cats. The organization consists of only one trapper, Nathan Campagna, from Warwick, Rhode Island. This organization works within a large network of cat rescuers, consisting of private rescues and shelters, as well as municipal shelters and animal control. They believe that when we all work together, we can get a lot done.
Hi, Nathan. Welcome to the show. Hi, Kim. How are you doing? I’m doing well today. Thank you. And thank you for joining me today. I’m excited to learn more about Hope Cat Rescue in Rhode Island. Thanks. So why don’t you go ahead and just start out by telling us a little bit about your organization and what your role is over there? Hope Cat Rescue basically just consists of me, one trapper. And my goals are really to trap street cats. Cats that are living on the streets. It could be sick, injured, or pregnant. They could have kittens. So I usually get calls from people or random people, people I know. Different organizations will call me to go on trapping. So I’m specifically Cat Trapper. So my goal is really just to get cats off the street that are in need and really to transfer them to other rescue groups that are used to doing the adoptions. I try to stay clear of that. But I do take cats in. I had a section set up at home with stainless steel kennels, that are roomy and so a lot of times I pick up feral pregnant cats and nobody wants to deal with them. So I’m stuck with them until they have their babies and the babies are weaned, and then I can get them to other rescue groups so they can do the adoption and the spays and neuters, and I can go back to trapping. And then the mother, if she’s a feral cat, she’ll get spayed and go back to the colony. If there’s no colony to go back to then we have to find a barn home, possibly for the cat or someplace for the cat to go.
Okay, so, I mean, you’re definitely a little bit more on the unique side than the organizations that I’ve talked to, which is a good thing. So you trap the cats. And for the most part, you said sometimes you do the adopting, but for the most part, you work with other organizations. Is that right? Yeah, that’s right. I’m licensed to do adoptions. I try not to, but sometimes I just have to do it. I get stuck with cats for certain reasons, and I have to do the adoption. So I made sure that I got legal with the Department of Environmental Management. And, um, that way I can do all my adoptions legally and have control over, you know, where the cats, where they’re going, certain cats that I get stuck with, you know, what if I have to adopt them out. At least I know who’s got them. Yeah, and I can keep track of them.
OK, so do you work with other organizations in your local area? Or do you kind of step out of your area bounds a little bit? You know, Rhode Island’s a small state, so it would basically help anywhere in the state, mostly focused on Providence. That’s obviously the capital of Rhode Island. I live just outside Providence, maybe like 10 minutes away, and Bullet and I used to live in Providence. I spent most of my adult years living in Providence, but I live in Walk now and basically all the cats in need are in Providence, but there are some in Warwick in France in those neighboring areas. So basically I am a unique rescue because I really am just a trapper and a lot of rescue groups are not trappers. They rely on people to surrender cats to them, or they might have people that do trapping that are kind of like on their own, and they may bring the cat to them. But I’m a legal cat trapper, and that’s basically, let’s focus on trapping the cats, getting the someone else on the rescue groups, other shelters and then go back out, get more cats. Basically, because I don’t want to be loaded up with cats. And they can add up quickly, too. Yeah, it’s been a challenge. The path we all deal with that, with volunteers. You know, we’ll deal with that. There’s just so many out there. Yes, definitely.
How is the community like? If you just trap cats and that’s kind of what you do. I’m assuming that you have an overpopulation problem of cats over there cause I’ve never been to Rhode Island. I’m not even on that side of the U.S. So share this a little bit about what the community is like in your area. So every big city has the cat problem. You might not know it, but Providence is a small city. It’s loaded with cats. There’s cats on every street, almost, at least on the west side of Providence. The Eastside is not as bad, but they’re everywhere.
So, as for the community, working with the community in Providence, sometimes they’re cooperative. Sometimes these cats have nobody feeding them or sometimes have a caretaker that’s feeding them on their porch or whatever, you know, and pretty much know, captures feeder neutered that are living on the streets. I’ve caught hundreds of cats and I think maybe two that I caught., have actually been spayed or neutered. I think there was one female and one male, and they were obviously abandoned or they were stray. We couldn’t find the owner, so they eventually got adopted through another organization. So there’s a lot of free-roaming cats that are making a lot of babies in Providence, like every big city. Not only in the big cities, but even the urban areas can get a little bad sometimes, or the rural areas, like farms or out in the woods we have. Some would see parts of Rhode Island and farm typesetting in Rhode Island, and you never know, like it could be a 30 cat colony out at one resident that you’ll never know about because the people live out in the woods or on a farm or something like that. So spay/neuter is important.
What I’m usually doing is getting emergency calls, and it might not be calls. They might be just me, knowing about a cat colony that needs to be spayed and neutered and all the other cats need to be processed too, cause you can’t just do TNR, trap, neuter, return. You can’t just do TNR. When you approach on a cat colony, there’s gonna be friendly cats and feral cats. Can be pregnant cats, sick cats, injured cats. So you have to deal with them all separately. There’s no such thing as a group that just does trap, neuter, return because you’re always gonna have to deal with kittens. Pregnant cats. I don’t believe in, they abort. So even if there’s a feral cat, it’s showing that she’s pregnant. I’m not going to spay that cat. I’m gonna cage her because she has her babies. And then when the babies are weaned, the babies go to another group to grow older and then get spayed, vaccinated and get adopted out. I try to stay clear of that like I was mentioning earlier than I have to deal with the mother cat, which is wild. But a lot of groups will not do that. I’m known for taking in feral mother cats. Sometimes you find a feral mother cat that has kittens already. What do you do with that? Well, usually they call me, Can you take care of this feral cat? Because a lot of people don’t want to foster a feral cat to have kittens. You know you want to keep the kitten with the mother. It’s a lot easier that way. So I do a lot of different jobs. It’s very unique. And I find it intriguing that you do take the time. I mean, ultimately you are taking in those cats that are not special needs, but you figure they are a special case. You know, you want to take the time to take in that pregnant mama cat, you know, allow her to have her kittens and be with them until they’re weaned and everything like that. Which is, I think it’s great that you do that because, yeah, you have more kittens in the world, but it’s just, ultimately it’s better for the cats and for the kittens and everything. And I think what you’re doing is great. And I love that you go over and beyond to care for all kinds of cats and not just try to do it quick and easy. TNR. I think it’s great.
Right. That’s the big difference between myself and other rescue groups. There’s so many different types of rescue groups. People don’t realize that. Actually, when I went to file for my license, I kind of had to explain what I did. And the DVM was kind of confused about what it is I do. What I want to do, what I want to accomplish. So I ended up getting the license. But I don’t really have my own fosters. I have a couple, but they’re mostly foster failures, they end up adopting a cat. What’s important for me, super important is that I keep a close network of other rescue groups that work with me and we do each other favors. So I have a close group of shelters that I use. I have a close group of rescue groups that are foster-based, non-brick and mortar licenses, what they call it. Then there’s people like me who trap. I’m probably the only person, definitely the only person in Rhode Island, but, you know, I could be the only person in the country. I’m basically a licensed rescue that just really traps cats because mostly the rescue groups have their own volunteers that trap cats, which is what I used to do. I used to work with other Rhode Island groups, but I decided that I wanted to start my own rescue group so I could have a lot more control over what happens to the cats. In other words, if I catch a pregnant cat, I don’t want a TNR group aborting the babies, so that was a problem. And I would take the cat and say, You know what, I’m going to foster that cat and let her have her kittens, and that’s what I believe in.
You know, everyone has different beliefs about that, and I know the argument is always adding more cats to the problem. But it might actually slow down the adoptions of adult cats, which you know could be right to say. But I do know that when people want to adopt a kitten, they want to adopt a kitten. They don’t want to adopt adult cats, so why not have kittens available for them? They usually just say, Well, I want a kitten, I don’t want an adult cat and they don’t get anything, and it’s just a moral thing. I just don’t feel right about a big pregnant cat getting her kittens aborted. I feel that’s wrong. And I have a lot of people that I know, that know that’s wrong. Also, it’s a lot of work to take that on, because you have to hold the cat. You have to have proper cages. They have to be nice cages, they can’t be junkie or small, and you have to know what you’re doing. And I have a pretty good set up at home, and they have to stay in a cage for a long time. Now if the feral, you can’t really ever let them out, they just have to nurse the kittens. When the kittens are ready, to take them to another rescue group and you process the mother cat. I think what it does boil down to is the beliefs and everything. But I think it’s great that you took it upon yourself to kind of open your own rescue and pretty much, so to speak, do things the way that you feel is right. You know. And I think that’s important, that you took that step because I can’t imagine trapping a big pregnant mama cat and having to abort them because that’s organization stipulations.
One of the things I’m curious about, for you specifically, is what are some of your biggest challenges overall, just kind of doing what you do? I mean, it’s hard and you’re definitely unique. And I’m curious to see what struggles that you face. That’s a pretty funny question. Just you asking me that question, my fears? Listening to this, they’re gonna be excited to hear about my answer because they already know the same problems that I go through. When I first started, this one of the volunteers that I was training, told me, “You know, Nate, it’s not the cats that are the problem, it’s the people”. And he’s completely right that the people are the problem, the biggest problem you have to deal with. You deal with cats living on the street, and you want to help them. But a lot of times people in the community don’t understand that you want to help them. They kind of assume that you wanna either trap them and sell them or euthanize them or, you know, they don’t trust you at all. Because a lot of these people in the inner city you know, they feed these cats and they become their pets, that basically live outside, that never get vetted. Basically, they’re outside pets that get fed. So one huge advantage I have now, which I really needed, was that I can now knock on the door and ask people, Hey, you know, someone told me a litter of kittens is in your backyard, I’m Nate, I am from Hope Cat Rescue. Here’s my business card. I am a licensed Cat Rescue and I am running down profit by the 501C3 and now I’m more professional. Now people right away know that I’m not just some guy that’s knocking on the door. I want to take the cats away.
Yeah. Because that’s what I do. I mean, I did it today, literally, just like four hours ago. I had to go knock on the door and say, Hey, we’re trapping these cats that are in your neighbor’s yard. We know that you have the shelter. They sleep in your shelter that they made and other people next door feed them. The other people said it’s OK to trap them and get them out of here and get them adopted because they were friendly. I wanted to get pretty much the blessings or permission from the other neighbor’s, that had to shelter. You know, I’m not just gonna take the cats off the street without asking anybody, unless they show no sign of a definite owner. But I mean, usually does some kind of guardian, feeding them, more than living in someone’s yard or garage or something like that. So the people can be taught to work with, and not just the inner city people, but the other rescue groups. So I’m sure it’s like this all over the country, probably all over the world with rescue groups. We don’t all get along. Everybody has different beliefs. Everybody does things differently. And we cross paths a lot and there is always bickering and fighting going on, within the group. So what’s important is you find your circle of groups and shelters that you want to work with, and that believe in the same system that you have, because if you don’t, then you’re gonna be fighting and arguing with people constantly.
And that’s one of the main reasons I started my own thing. So I can just do things my way. Trap the cats I want to trap and bring them where I want to bring them. Don’t euthanize a cat because it has leukemia, I’ll find a home for the cat. I know shelters that will take a leukemia positive cat. If he’s not showing any signs of sickness, why would you euthanize a healthy cat? Because he’s healthy up until the disease compromises the immune system and it catches some kind of virus or something. I’m not gonna cut the cat’s life short. So I mean, I have a lot of people that believe in my system, and then I know of plenty of other people that don’t believe in that system. So the people, I mean, problems, not going to stop there. But it’s also, let’s say, take for instance, DEM, Department of Environmental Management. They’re the ones that make all the rules, the rules and regulations, and they do a pretty good job. They have a really good record keeping, an online record-keeping system for all the rescue groups. And I don’t know of many states that have that. But we have this very detailed system for taking in street animals, where they go, when they get fixed. When they get there Rabies, it all gets recorded and sent into the state. Just the one problem with the people that run these city and town rules and regulations don’t really understand what we do, so sometimes they’ll make a rule or regulation. It just doesn’t really work properly in our world because they don’t do what we do. So it’s tough that you have other people that make rules for us, that don’t even know what we do.
So right now, this kind of discussion and argument about trap, neuter, return cats. Is it cruel to return a feral cat to the wild, after it’s been spayed or neutered? Well, what’s really important is that those cats don’t reproduce because those cats reproducing on the street causes cruelty to the kittens. So what happens is, if you don’t do TNR work, these cats are just breeding out there, making a lot of babies and the kittens suffer. Trust me because I see it first hand. I’m the one who goes out on the streets and firsthand sees these colonies that have dead kittens or frozen kittens or kittens that just grow up with a terrible life ahead of them. They might only live a couple of years. They’re gonna be infested with parasites. They have diseases, injuries, and so that’s cruel. So really, it’s not cruel to return a wildcat, to its colony, after spay/neuter. It’s like the exact thing you want to do because it cuts down on the suffering of the baby cats. So politicians and rule makers sometimes don’t see that type of thing, they don’t really understand that they just kind of feel like, well, to put a feral cat back out, it’s cruel because the cat’s gonna get cold and this and that. Well, I mean, what are you gonna do? I’m not gonna euthanize the cat. I’m gonna let it live its life and fend for itself. But I’m gonna make damn well sure it doesn’t reproduce and cause more suffering. So basically, and there’s a lot of things you gotta deal with, the hardest thing to deal with are people, everybody involved, basically disagreeing and arguing. And everybody knows that. You know it is, and it’s hard when different organizations have different points of view and opinions and everything.
So I do have a question, if I may? When you take in the cats and you trap them, as you pointed out, you find a cat that’s just feral, doesn’t work well with others, they’re not very socialized. You return them back to the colony. Now, if you get an adult cat or any cat for that matter, that is very sociable and everything like that, whether there are kittens or not, if they’re an adult cat, do you take them to the organizations that you work with to be adopted also? So that’s a good question. So that’s also a big problem in Rhode Island. And that the number one thing that all municipal animal control and DEM is always worried about you trapping from the cat. So it’s not as easy as most people think. I trap a lot of public cats, but they’re not people’s cats. When you’re working in the inner city, it’s a lot of abandoned cats in a lot of runaway cats, and they’re basically stray. So the problem is, how do you know someone owns the cat? That’s the biggest question on everybody’s mind, that does this. If you trap a friendly cat, does someone own it? There’s a lot of experience involved in that, so usually, I get to know the cat before I trap it. So if someone tells me like, I see the cat every day. I’ve been feeding this cat for, like the year. It might be two days. Then I get a phone call. I’m gonna investigate, does that cat have a collar? Can you pet it? Might even have a microchip. I have a microchip reader, so I can check, although not too often do you have a lost cat with a microchip. But it definitely happens. It happened with the group I used to be with. And a friend of mine did trap another one that had a microchip. But these do we have to do is if you think that no one owns this cat, there’s ways to find out. So if you see a cat that’s around early in the morning and late at night, you know it might be two o’clock in the morning and the cat is out, the people are feeding the cat, taking care of the cat, you know, cats out there all the time. Well, if the cats out at two in the morning, or like six in the morning, it’s probably not owned by anybody. It’s probably lost or abandoned. So what you do is you can trap the cat, if you can’t pick it up, because even a tame cat is scared. It doesn’t mean that they’re feral. A lot of people think all cats are feral because they live outside and because you can’t touch them. Well, there’s a lot of tame cats. A lot of tame cats that currently you can’t get, they’re gonna run away from you when they’re outside and you’re trying to pick them up.
So what you would want to do is you get the cat into possession, you have to notify the animal control that’s from that city and tell them, Hey, I have this cat. I believe that it’s lost or abandoned. You have to give them a description of the cat and tell them where you found it. And that way, if someone is looking for the cat, well the first place they’re probably gonna call animal control, you know, Did you pick up my cat? Well, we didn’t pick up your cat, but we know a rescue that picked up your cat. you know. Or what we have around here is a Facebook group called Lost Cats. So it has one for Rhode Island. I think they might have one for all the states, I’m not sure, but the Facebook Group, where you can post lost animals or found animals and it goes by city. So each city has their own Facebook, and it’s run by the same people. So you can post the cat, and then it happens all the time. People will post the cat. And, you know, you might hear back a couple of weeks later. Oh, that’s my cat. Maybe people just found out you have their cats, so you know, the straight hold in Rhode Island, is at the least, two days for a cat that has no chip, no tag, no collar. I believe it’s five days if the cat has no information at all. So you’re not gonna adopt the cat out right away. You’re gonna wait and I wait longer than five days. I’m gonna do an adoption, it’s usually way longer than that. But when I do get a friendly cat, depending on whether I can keep it in my house, or not. And I might be full, so I would have to bring it, to turn it over to a shelter, another group, and say, you know, hey, we’re still waiting to see if anybody owns this cat. We got to wait a week, five days, And if no one comes looking for the cat, then the cat gets adopted.
But I can tell you there’s a lot of friendly cats, walking the streets in Providence, and you can tell if they’re abandoned or just stray cats for some reason because they’re skinny or they’re injured, sick or they’re just out late at night or in the morning. That’s usually a sign of them being an actual homeless cat. You want to get as much information as we can, educated information, you know, you don’t want to be the type of trapper that just traps random cats. That’ll get you in trouble, for sure. And it happens where people complain about their missing cats, and then the animal control will call around and say, Hey, anybody, was anybody in this area? Did anybody trap this cat? I mean, I’ve caught abandoned cats that had collars, collars that are tight, that they grew into because they had a collar when they were kittens. And now they’re growing up and they got lost or abandoned when they were a kitten and you trap them and you’re like, Wow, this cat has been outside for a while. It’s experience.
Just from talking with you and listening to you, and you definitely have a lot of knowledge and experience and everything, So I’m kind of curious as to how you kind of got into this field? I was always an animal lover. You know, when I was a kid, maybe four or five years old, six years old, I collected stuffed animals. I had more stuffed animals than toys, like trucks and cars and stuff like that. I just had stuffed animals. I love animals, like dinosaurs, dogs, and cats. A lot of cool stuffed animals. So I started at a young age, but it really started, probably in 2015, when I had moved back to Providence. I was living in East Greenwich, for a while, so I moved back to Providence. And I just started noticing that there was a lot of cats around and people knew that I loved animals so they would ask me, You know, Nate, can you check out this spot because somebody told me that was kittens there, you know. And I go there and be like, I don’t know what to do. I don’t have any equipment, or anything. So you know, I went online. Found a trap/ neuter/ return group called Paws Watch. So Paws Watch, in Rhode Island, they’re a trap/ neuter/ return group. They’re nonprofit and licensed, non-brick and mortar rescue.
So I started working with them, getting some training in, and learning how things worked. And I was at least, 2015. And since then, you know, I just really wanted to help all these cats in Providence. And I did. Every cat on my street and there was a couple of pockets of runaway colonies that I got done. I took kittens out, and spayed and neutered and feral cats went back to the colonies. Within a three-mile radius, is probably, like 300 cats. Just three miles just down one street, that we have in Providence, Valley Street. There is cats everywhere, big colonies, like, all over the place. So you kind of like jump from one colony to the next. You hear about another colony and in a year about another colony. And then the next thing you know, you’re the guy that goes and traps cats. The very first thing I did, when I started working with Paws Watch, you know, I told them I said, You people are struggling. You’re having a hard time catching these cats, that you really need the catch. You know, because cats are hard to catch. Sometimes they don’t want to go in traps. And sometimes you catch the wrong cat or you catch the wrong species. You might catch a skunk or a possum or something.
I’m also kind of curious what your plans are for the future for your organization. Are you planning on continuing just trapping them and doing what you’re doing now? Or do you have hopes to have, like a facility, where you can bring animals in and have volunteers and adoption? What are your plans for the future? I think the plan for the far future, would be that I do own a facility and run a facility, where I can really get a lot done. I’m limited because I don’t have a lot of room in my house and the last thing you want to do is fill your house up with cats. Once you do that, you’re destined to fail. It’s way too much work. So that’s why I like to say, get them in and get them out, you know. The groups I work with are all for that. They will handle taking the cats in unless it’s a busy season.
So the short term goals are for me to teach classes on how to trap better techniques, introduce people to equipment. The key to making your life easier with trapping cats is to have the right equipment. Nowadays, I have my own rescue van, so I can load all my equipment into it. And I don’t have to destroy my car like I used to when I first started doing this. Packing in traps and digging up my car and cats in my car. And my car smelled of cat pee and cat food, rotten fish. So a lot of trappers suffer because they’re trying to load their equipment into their nice cars. You know, really, I want to teach people how to start your own group and how to get that accomplished and how to trap cats. So I want to teach a class on that. That’s what I’m good at, that’s what I’m best at. Right now I can’t, I’m not financially stable enough to buy a shelter space and run it. You know, I have to still make money for myself. Take care of, I have a mortgage payment that I have to make. So running a nonprofit is tough. It is something that it’s hard to do. It’s hard to hold a job and run a nonprofit because I see other people doing it. And it’s not easy, you know. And right now I’m freed up a lot of my lifetime by driving for Uber. That’s my job. So I can do a lot of my cat stuff any time I want. And then in my spare time, I can Uber drive and be independent.
Of course, right now, with this virus moving over the whole country, the whole world, you know, I’m not doing any Uber driving, so. I have ways to get by right now, but I’m gonna have to go back to, either a full-time job or driving a different type of driving job, which could be delivering packages. So eventually, in the future, definitely the goal would be to run a shelter, where I can bring in a lot of cats and not worry about space and process them the proper way.
It takes a lot, you know, one of the things that I always love to hear people say is you know, it takes a village to run an animal welfare organization. It’s absolutely crazy, the amount of work that goes into it, not just the actual physical work, but the emotional, the mental. And then a lot of times you have to keep up with paperwork and you have to keep up with all these other things that go into it. So the fact that you’re doing it and your kind of a one-man show and you’re working with other organizations, you’re showing that it is possible to do the great work and save animals and, you know, just ultimately give them a second chance at a better life. And it’s great. And, you know, we need more people out there, with the passion that you have. And I’m happy that you were able to join me today and tell me a little bit about you and your story and your organization. And I think what you’re doing is great. And I would say, just keep on moving forward and things will come your way, you know? Yeah, things are always improving, always improving my game. I’m always looking for ways to help other people and educate other people. You know, one of the things I want to work on with the state is to make Rabies vaccinations for people more affordable. You know, I paid for my own rabies vaccination, that cost me 1200 bucks. If it was cheaper, a lot more people would do it, in this business. That would help out if people get bit, And the first thing they want to do is euthanize the cat or any animal that bites someone. And it’s very rare that a cat would have rabies, but it does happen, you know. Avoid euthanizing a cat so you could dissect it’s brain.
I mean, I got a lot of things going on. I’m always pushing forward and I build my own cat traps. I’d build remote-controlled cat traps and I built a set of them. So there’s a lot of trappers in Rhode Island that have these remote-controlled traps, where you can sit there and wait and trap the right cat. You can trap the injured one or the pregnant ones, the ones that you really want that day because they are usually the last cats that go into the traps. So you want to have control over traps. Okay, that’s interesting. Yeah.
Well, Nate, Thank you so much for joining me today. I really did. I think what you’re doing is great. I especially think that you put your beliefs first and how you do what you feel is right. And I think that’s a good thing to put first. It’s led you down this road. It’s working, and you’re building relationships with other people in this industry, and I think that that’s most important. You know, we want to save more lives, and we want to be here for the animals. And that’s what’s most important. Exactly. It’s not an exact science. There’s a lot of problems you have to deal with along the way. But it will be worth it. And once you rescue a group of kittens for the first time, it’s something so exciting you think, Wow, that’s a lot of work, but I want to do it again. You know, 350 kittens later, you actually still get the same feeling. Now I feel like I really did something. It’s really important to me. You know, I feel like I really want to help animals versus helping people out. People get a lot of help already, and they can help themselves. But animals have nobody. Yeah. You wanna just provide some of that care for the suffering cat? Something I don’t ever really deal with is dogs. It’s all cats. But that’s what I do. Well, good. And we appreciate what you do. And like I said before, keep up the great work. And, you know, I’d love to touch base with you in the future and see how things are going. Just to kind of see how you’ve grown over time, but I definitely value what you do and keep up the good work. Well, thanks a lot, Kim. Thanks for having me. You’re very welcome. Thanks for joining me today.
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